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Kilt ancestry: Shendyt


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#1 Barley Bird

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Posted 22 December 2008 - 03:02 PM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shendyt

A pleated wrap around skirt worn over a loincloth. Aprons in the front, pleats in the rear, and look, the aprons even go the same way that kilt aprons should on a man.

Interesting... Some enterprising kilt maker should make a modern day version of the Shendyt, preferably out of hemp blended linen. Maybe add pockets.

Then you could kilt like an Egyptian.

#2 ButlerGal

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Posted 22 December 2008 - 06:05 PM

That is interesting. Egyptian kilt, eh?

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#3 Barley Bird

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Posted 22 December 2008 - 06:12 PM

It really is a kilt too... Pleated in the rear, in multiple styles, but usually knife pleats, and two aprons. The flap that hangs down in the middle isn't actually part of the shendyt. It is a loincloth.

The aprons even go the same way...

Some of the shendyts on statues are quite elaborate and have many pleats, some are curved in the front, others are squared off. Some have narrow aprons, some have wide aprons.

With the squared off aprons, on some of the depictions I've seen, you'd have a hard time distinguishing it from a modern kilt.

#4 turpin

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Posted 22 December 2008 - 06:14 PM

There are lines of evidence that the Celts have roots in Ancient Egypt. Not that that means that the Scottish kilt had Egyptian origins, especially since the word itself has Scandinavian origins.
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#5 Barley Bird

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Posted 22 December 2008 - 06:21 PM

I saw one picture (in a book) of a statue, and I swear to God, the shendyt was Kinguisse pleated in the rear. One box pleat, several knife pleats going forward. The rear box was covered with symbols and designs. The front had curved and tapered aprons with an exposed loincloth.

I think it would take a dedicated kilt wearer to really make that connection. Think about it. Kinguisse pleating in ancient Egypt.

Horus was an awesome old god, and he was a KILT WEARER. Does that make him a god and a half?

#6 werewolves

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Posted 22 December 2008 - 06:35 PM

Hmm, this is pretty interesting. I like the double-curved front. In a modern version, the "loin cloth" portion could be a lining to protect the sensitive areas.
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#7 Barley Bird

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Posted 22 December 2008 - 06:38 PM

QUOTE (werewolves @ Dec 22 2008, 07:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Hmm, this is pretty interesting. I like the double-curved front. In a modern version, the "loin cloth" portion could be a lining to protect the sensitive areas.



It would need to be heavier than just a lining material. Needs to stay down in the wind, and fall between your legs when you sit.

I'd venture a guess that the loincloth was made out of leather.

#8 werewolves

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Posted 22 December 2008 - 06:54 PM

QUOTE (Barley Bird @ Dec 22 2008, 04:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
It would need to be heavier than just a lining material. Needs to stay down in the wind, and fall between your legs when you sit.

I'd venture a guess that the loincloth was made out of leather.

I think a black kilt in this style, with pockets and a soft black leather "loincloth" under-piece would look really nice. A bit longer than the pic in the link though. Nobody needs to see that wink.gif And the loincloth would really assist modesty issues.
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#9 Barley Bird

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Posted 22 December 2008 - 07:07 PM

QUOTE (werewolves @ Dec 22 2008, 07:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I think a black kilt in this style, with pockets and a soft black leather "loincloth" under-piece would look really nice. A bit longer than the pic in the link though. Nobody needs to see that wink.gif And the loincloth would really assist modesty issues.



Gothic-Egyptian style...

I could see that. Not much of a stretch really.

#10 Barley Bird

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Posted 23 December 2008 - 11:18 AM

Now that my brain isn't as fuzzy as it has been lately, a few thoughts.

The simple kilt could indeed be far older than we realise. A wrapped skirt with simple knife pleats or box pleats could have happened a hell of a long time ago, far earlier than any of the first historical reports of little kilts. It could very well be that pleated and aprons skirts were so common at such a time that nobody thought them remarkable enough to write about them or make notes. The climate could have changed... We know a mini ice age happened. The earliest proto-kilts could have de-evolved, going back from a pleated and wrapped skirt to a pleated and wrapped blanket as there was more need to cover the body. And this could have happened for so long that people forgot about it, and the little kilt had to be rediscovered.

Also, the kilt it self may very well be one of humankind's foundation proto-garments. Just like with bog coats and bog shirts, which have been found in other places with remarkably similar construction, there have been pleated and wrapped skirts found in South America, preserved textiles. (The examples I'm thinking of were longer, almost ankle length, tied around the waist, and worn at higher elevations to keep warm) The native Americans still wear a garment that almost unchanged from this early times. (See sapeta) The sapeta can either be very elaborate or very simple... The elaborate ones are pleated and have aprons, usually curved, and very much like a shendyt.

The kilt in its most simplified form, the 4 yard or so box pleat or knife pleat, is not unique to Scotland, nor is it anything new. I'd venture an educated guess that people have been wearing what we call a kilt for quite some time now, and, if you took people from earlier times and showed them a modern but simple kilt, they'd see something familiar that they would know and recognise. Many different names, all of which go back to a common proto-kilt... Or even an ur-kilt. The designation of the word ur-kilt might seem like a stretch, but we have to remember that there were cultures even before the Egyptians... And I'd guess that they too wore pleated wrapped skirts with overlapping aprons. Such a designation of being an ur-garment would make the kilt to be one of man's earliest achievements in clothing, and the usage of the word kilt merely in the modern context, because nobody knows what the hell a shendyt is, but many people know what a kilt is.

I studied to become a tailor... I don't know how I wound up learning about ancient clothing. But I am horribly fascinated by it, and find a great deal of inspiration in the subject. Kilts are a return to our roots as human beings... Not just as Scots or Celts. As such, all cultures, all men, every human being on earth would have a rightful claim to such a garment.

I think that is what I am after as a tailor. Clothing for human beings. I don't know if those words really carry the message I want though. Universal clothing that transcends all cultures and generations. A return to simple but practical clothing.

#11 Raptor

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Posted 23 December 2008 - 01:26 PM

I've always likes the Egyptian kilts. And having a soft spot for Seth helps too smile.gif
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#12 Barley Bird

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Posted 23 December 2008 - 10:47 PM

QUOTE (Raptor @ Dec 23 2008, 02:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I've always likes the Egyptian kilts. And having a soft spot for Seth helps too smile.gif



Perhaps you should have a shendyt made to honour Seth?

Would be kinda awesome...

#13 Raptor

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Posted 25 December 2008 - 01:47 AM

That could be well chaotic! We may have to chat soon, bro!
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#14 Barley Bird

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Posted 25 December 2008 - 07:29 AM

Not sure how to make one.

#15 Raptor

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Posted 27 December 2008 - 02:56 PM

me either...
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