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the irish DO wear kilts!


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#1 KT

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Posted 07 November 2007 - 10:52 PM

I agree =) For those that like to wear kilts with docs or combat boots. =) I really need to convince my man the Irish should wear kilts too. =)


The Irish DO wear kilts!! I've got an Irish saffron kilt myself.

Here is what wikipedia has to say about Irish kilts!
http://en.wikipedia....Kilt#Irish_kilt

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#2 Irish Siege

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Posted 08 November 2007 - 06:03 AM

I agree =) For those that like to wear kilts with docs or combat boots. =) I really need to convince my man the Irish should wear kilts too. =)


Yep, like KT said, the Irish do wear kilts. I am of Irish (ahem, and Polish :lol: ) ancestry and have researched this a bit.

It is a fairly contentious issue. There are source documents that some interpret as stating that the ancients of Ireland wore kilts and some say it is misinterpreted and that those ancestors did not wear kilts but instead more of a lengthy shirt or tunic. Then again, some say they wore both, starting with the saffron shirt or tunic and evolving it into the saffron kilt.

Apparently as the British usurped their power over Ireland and Scotland, the kilt fell out of common use in Ireland.

Most recently, the House of Edgar has registered MANY Irish County Tartans (of which I have the Galway), as well as, the Irish National Tartan - though the use of tartan fabric historically has been a Scottish tradition.

Whatever you think, it is a garment that many Irish and Irish diaspora groups have claimed or re-claimed.

Below is a good link with a history of the Irish kilt, as well as a good description of different bagpipes, to include the Irish Uilleann pipes.

http://www.royaliris...uk/uniform.html

#3 The Amadan

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Posted 08 November 2007 - 10:32 AM

Yep, like KT said, the Irish do wear kilts. I am of Irish (ahem, and Polish ) ancestry and have researched this a bit.


It's a funny coincidence this was brought up.
We took my stepson out for his 32nd birthday, Tuesday.

(He is of Irish (father) & Polish (mother) descent [grandparents came right off the boats, thru Ellis Island].)

Recently, he added a Celtic tattoo, in honor of his ancestry.
Amongst the conversation, kilts (of course) came up.
I suggested that he give a serious look into kilts, to further honor his lineage.
Aaron is a handsome, athletic young man... and a snappy dresser. He would look absolutely bada$$ sharp in a kilt.
Additionally, he has four small sons... this could be the start of a wonderful tradition, between father & boys. (start 'em young, I say)

I informed him that I would, of course, be kilted for Thanksgiving... and that an extra kilt & accessories would be available for wear that holiday, if he would desire to check it out.

I will continue to give him "gentle nudges"...
Even though his father is a proud Celt, he's a bit of an arrogant a**... and would not take kindly to his son following his stepfather into a kilt.
I have a good, trusting rapport with my stepson... I can be patient.


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#4 McFarkus

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Posted 08 November 2007 - 12:37 PM

I informed him that I would, of course, be kilted for Thanksgiving... and that an extra kilt & accessories would be available for wear that holiday, if he would desire to check it out.


Trying to corrupt the poor lad are ya'? Good for you.
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#5 The Amadan

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Posted 08 November 2007 - 12:44 PM

Trying to corrupt the poor lad are ya'?



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...........Tony, #97:......................Laird Protector of the Wisecrack,
...................................................BotK token Extra-terrestrial,
........................................Translator for the Sarcastically-impaired
.........................................................Generally silly man.
..........................................Scottish-Irish, and darned proud of it!
............................................Póg ma thoin, if ya nae don a kilt!

#6 Mcmurdo

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Posted 08 November 2007 - 01:14 PM

Yes the Irish wear kilts too, after all you don't have to be Scottish now do you? I also have a saffron kilt, somewhere down the line on my mom's side we were in Ireland so that's why I got it.

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#7 CactusJack

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Posted 08 November 2007 - 01:34 PM

I will continue to give him "gentle nudges"...
Even though his father is a proud Celt, he's a bit of an arrogant a**... and would not take kindly to his son following his stepfather into a kilt.
I have a good, trusting rapport with my stepson... I can be patient.
-Doing my part to further the Kilted Kause....



Keep up the good work, my stepson who is half irish(his momma's a Doyle) and was raised Jewish (his dad's a Rosenthal) loves the idea of a kilt and if he wasn't so darn big I would let him wear one of mine.
I am planning on getting him a SWK Economy Black Watch kilt for Christmas this year..

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#8 The Amadan

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Posted 08 November 2007 - 01:42 PM

I am planning on getting him a SWK Economy Black Watch kilt for Christmas this year..


Right On!
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...........Tony, #97:......................Laird Protector of the Wisecrack,
...................................................BotK token Extra-terrestrial,
........................................Translator for the Sarcastically-impaired
.........................................................Generally silly man.
..........................................Scottish-Irish, and darned proud of it!
............................................Póg ma thoin, if ya nae don a kilt!

#9 scottishatheist

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Posted 08 November 2007 - 01:44 PM

Hello people, I am a long termn spectator of this forum and I have joined to answer this false notion of irish kilt history.

1. The ulster kilt is scottish not irish, it was worn by protestant ulster scots in the british army who would never consider themselves irish. It is not actually an irish kilt.

2. I lived in ireland for 5 years and I know for fact that The irish do not wear kilts nor do they view the kilt as irish in anyway.

3. The only reason that irish tartan and kilts were developed was to cash in on the american market. The only market for irish kilts comes from america not ireland.

4. padraic pearse leader of the irish rebellion in 1916 tried to encourage his fenian followers to wear the kilt for pride and inspiration but it did not come about.

5. The irish gaels (aswell as scots) wore lienes or long shirts, this does not resemble a kilt

6. The kilt is uniquely scottish and the celts did not wear kilts. The celts wore troo$er$ and cloaks

#10 IEScotsman

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Posted 08 November 2007 - 02:26 PM

Welcome to the forum! Glad you could join us.
While I can't speak to many of your claims, I can say that #6 is not entirely accurate because it depends on the time period. During ancient Roman times, it is true that men wore troo$er$, coats, and cloaks (often a symbol of nobility). But during medieval times, kilts were in fact worn by Celts. While a Celt may not be a Scot, a Scot is absolutely a Celt.

Hello people, I am a long termn spectator of this forum and I have joined to answer this false notion of irish kilt history.

1. The ulster kilt is scottish not irish, it was worn by protestant ulster scots in the british army who would never consider themselves irish. It is not actually an irish kilt.

2. I lived in ireland for 5 years and I know for fact that The irish do not wear kilts nor do they view the kilt as irish in anyway.

3. The only reason that irish tartan and kilts were developed was to cash in on the american market. The only market for irish kilts comes from america not ireland.

4. padraic pearse leader of the irish rebellion in 1916 tried to encourage his fenian followers to wear the kilt for pride and inspiration but it did not come about.

5. The irish gaels (aswell as scots) wore lienes or long shirts, this does not resemble a kilt

6. The kilt is uniquely scottish and the celts did not wear kilts. The celts wore troo$er$ and cloaks


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#11 Raptor

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Posted 08 November 2007 - 02:30 PM

I also have to add that the kilt is not uniquely Scottish. I wish it were, but...

The ancient Egyptians wore kilts, & they were certainly not Celts :drink1:
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#12 KT

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Posted 08 November 2007 - 02:41 PM

According to Matt Newsome ( http://www.albanach.org/kilt.html) , you are right in that there is nothing to say that the kilt was worn in ireland previous to the 1800's. There is resounding proof that they are currently worn by irish dancers and pipebands, and that most of the irish "tartans" were made only in the past 20 years.

As far as them not wearing the kilt at all, I'm not in ireland, so I cannot comment on it. I am willing to bet there are quite a few people in Ireland who wear the kilt, though.

also, with the exception on #4 and #6, your arguements were already stated in the article from wikipedia.

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#13 scottishatheist

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Posted 08 November 2007 - 02:52 PM

the egyptians did not wear kilts, kilt is a word to describe a specific scottish garment pleated in a specific way, in a unique pattern of certain material.
the toga like costume worn by egyptians, romans and norse can hardly be called a kilt.

just because something is skirt like, does not mean it is a kilt. Is a girl skirt a kilt ?

#14 KT

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Posted 08 November 2007 - 03:00 PM

the egyptians did not wear kilts, kilt is a word to describe a specific scottish garment pleated in a specific way, in a unique pattern of certain material.
the toga like costume worn by egyptians, romans and norse can hardly be called a kilt.

just because something is skirt like, does not mean it is a kilt. Is a girl skirt a kilt ?



According to several resources on the web, the word kilt and shendjyt are used interchangably to describe the garb of many ancient egyptians.

http://www.egyptianm....asp?which2=694

http://www.arlecchin...ptian_kilt.html

http://s93583130.onl...ife/define.html

this one has a picture -
http://books.google....gTiw0YSugu_mVsw

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#15 scottishatheist

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Posted 08 November 2007 - 03:33 PM

english speaking scholars have taken the kilt name that they know well and transcribed it to describe the skirt like dress of many nations and cultures . kilt is not an egyptian word.

could I also clarify something above, "While a Celt may not be a Scot, a Scot is absolutely a Celt."

this is not really true as the celts are a linguistic group not a racial one (though celts share some similar genetic traits for obvious reasons). I would go far to say that celtic culture is pretty much as dead as a dodo anywhere around the world it is an ancient relic of the far past.

#16 KT

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Posted 08 November 2007 - 04:09 PM

the egyptians did not wear kilts, kilt is a word to describe a specific scottish garment pleated in a specific way, in a unique pattern of certain material.
the toga like costume worn by egyptians, romans and norse can hardly be called a kilt.

just because something is skirt like, does not mean it is a kilt. Is a girl skirt a kilt ?


so, does that mean there is only one way of pleating a real kilt?

(oh, the toga is desitinctly roman, not worn by other cultures)

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#17 DrLewall

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Posted 08 November 2007 - 04:48 PM

Of course the Irish wore kilts! I seen it in the movies with me own two eyes, Braveheart is one movie that comes to mind... :drink1:
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#18 Irish Siege

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Posted 08 November 2007 - 04:53 PM

Hello people, I am a long termn spectator of this forum and I have joined to answer this false notion of irish kilt history.

1. The ulster kilt is scottish not irish, it was worn by protestant ulster scots in the british army who would never consider themselves irish. It is not actually an irish kilt.

2. I lived in ireland for 5 years and I know for fact that The irish do not wear kilts nor do they view the kilt as irish in anyway.

3. The only reason that irish tartan and kilts were developed was to cash in on the american market. The only market for irish kilts comes from america not ireland.

4. padraic pearse leader of the irish rebellion in 1916 tried to encourage his fenian followers to wear the kilt for pride and inspiration but it did not come about.

5. The irish gaels (aswell as scots) wore lienes or long shirts, this does not resemble a kilt

6. The kilt is uniquely scottish and the celts did not wear kilts. The celts wore troo$er$ and cloaks


Well, I can't really argue against any of these points. I HAVE heard that the Saffron Kilt is affiliated with the Orange Order but never really received any confirmation.

However, I too have been to Ireland and have seen kilt wearing people - both in pipebands and just out and about.

I am American and love wearing the kilt. When I do so, I am not necessarily trying to BE Irish - I am showing my pride in my Irish ancestry (in fact, I am considering a kilt with the Polish Eagle embroidered on the apron, in place of a kilt pin). I also wear the kilt because it is comfortable and sets me apart from other conformists. In addition, I wear Utilikilts which are a decidedly American take on the garment.

Truly I can understand the kilt and tartan market looking at America (and other countries where folks emigrated) as a cash cow and wanting to cash in. We are such a mish-mash of cultures, I think it only natural that two (or more) cultures that have been removed from their country of origin for whatever reason would unify cultural identities - hence the Irish Tartan Kilt.

Additionally, I think it is GREAT that people take such pride in their history and would go to the lengths of creating a differentiating mode of dress to identify their country of origin.

While I would love to be able to point to the Irish as historically wearing the kilt, I often find information that refutes that notion. However, I continue my research, find something that says they DID and then, again, find that historically that is not the case.

That said, and like I said, I don't wear kilts to be Irish - I wear them to be me.

#19 Pain

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Posted 08 November 2007 - 06:00 PM

The Albanach site discusses it rather well:

http://albanach.org/kilt.html
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#20 Tartan Jack

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Posted 08 November 2007 - 08:01 PM

Of course the Irish wore kilts! I seen it in the movies with me own two eyes, Braveheart is one movie that comes to mind... :drink1:


PLEASE tell me this is sarcasm. Braveheart costumes have NOTHING to do with the 13th/14th centuries and the "kilts" reflect NOTHING worn at ANYTIME in HISTORY.

As for Egypt, scholars use the term "kilt" for them regularly. Now, as to IF/WHETHER that has ANYTHING to do with the Scottish kilt is a WHOLE different matter.
Personally, I think the similarity is only superficial and the term used as a quick-short cut to describe what is shown in the artwork.
To my knowledge, NO Egyptian kilt has EVER been found. So, all reconstructions are based, primarily, on WALL CARVINGS and verbal descriptions (and a few illustrations).
May the Kilt be with you, always!




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