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The Kilted Nation

Cheap kilts, poly-viscose and more...a rant

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Thought some of you may find this little rant I sent in to X Marks the Scot kinda interesting:

http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/here_we...t=Kilted+Nation

Scroll down to my rant.

It got started with someone mentioning PV kilts from us....others claiming there is no way it PV...its from Pakistan its from China...blah blah blah...hatred of all things not-handmade in Scotland....etc.....

My whole point...kilts for all....even if you can't afford a tank.

Let me know what you think,

Brad

TKN

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The same topic has been debated here. However, the Stillwater and similar seem to be a bit more accepted on this side of the fence.

There has been "railing" against Pakistani kilts for multiple reasons: it's nae Scottish, their cheaply made, they employ child laborers, etc, etc.

First, I don't think we are as hard nosed about the "nae Scottish." (I am not Scottish by blood). As a former owner of an SWK (which I just sold due to it being too big), I can attest to their solid construction.

And until I see solid, documented proof that child labor is emplyed in the contruction of SWKs and economy kilts of similar stature, I will continue to support them as a great, inexpensive alternative.

:rolleyes:

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Thought some of you may find this little rant I sent in to X Marks the Scot kinda interesting:

http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/here_we...t=Kilted+Nation

Scroll down to my rant.

It got started with someone mentioning PV kilts from us....others claiming there is no way it PV...its from Pakistan its from China...blah blah blah...hatred of all things not-handmade in Scotland....etc.....

My whole point...kilts for all....even if you can't afford a tank.

Let me know what you think,

Brad

TKN

Buddy, I'd love to read your rant but I, and others here, am banned from Xmarks. Can you post it here? I'd love to read it and let you know my thoughts too.

Kilt ON!

Chris Webb

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To save Brad the time, here are the two posts that were one on top of the other there:

Welcome.....and a reply

Lets start off with a "Welcome to the forum", it's never a dull day around here.

I've debated over the last several months whether I wanted to make my "feelings" known on the whole "where it's sourced from" or "what it's made of" debate, here on X Marks. It's tough, as it is a very polarizing subject to some.

In that sense, it is much like religion. You can't argue against a persons faith, by the very nature of faith and their beliefs, they won't be swayed. With that given, I believe everyone is allowed to believe what they will, and have faith in each of their own religions (although I don't count Scientology as a faith or religion....don't get me started there...)

So I decided a while ago, to take a similar stance on these two arguments. I can understand each sides points, but I won't try to argue or debate or try to win anyone over from one side to the other.

First off....am I a distribution house.....no.....and yes. My wife and I own a very small store that just opened up six months ago, in Manassas Virginia. It is completed self funded....with a little help from my credit cards. So...we are not a franchise, we are not a drop shipper, nor are we front for any company or organization. We do not pretend to be anything we are not. So no....we am not a distribution house for any company that is trying to hide their source or presence.

But yes....I am a distribution house, in the sense that I am a retail store owner. I buy and sell kilts and other Scottish and Celtic products. I wish I had the time and skill to make the kilts I sell....but I do not. I do have a passion for my heritage, for comfortable clothing, and for getting out of IT security consulting (which I have done for 15 years, and still do, in order to pay the bills at home).

My company and store (both physical and on the web) were founded on the precepts that we can help a person be kilted, whether it be for their heritage, for comfort, for fashion....or for any reason......at a price point they can afford.

Yes, I have kilts made of medium weave poly-viscous...is the fabric as nice as that provided by Marton Mills....no....is it acrylic......absolutely not (I have received samples from various sources of acrylic kilts.....I am not a fan of them). Are they decent kilts, well made, at a price that many can afford....absolutely, yes.

Will they ever be mistaken for a tank.....no. Nor do I try and sell them as such. Which is exactly the reason I can measure and take orders for House of Edgar and Lochcarron. I have many customers come in looking for for traditional Scottish kilts. They know what to expect on price, and they wouldn't buy one of the cheap kilts in place of it.

But many people cannot afford $500 plus for a traditional 8-9 yard wool kilt. Hell...many can't even afford the casual 5 yard kilts at $330. But they do want to get into a kilt...and it can be any reason from heritage to fashion.

So I try to offer a little bit for everyone.

And you know....many folks that start with a low cost kilt, come back.....they want the tank....they want the family tartan....(the low cost traditional kilts are only available in 16 optional tartans/colors/patterns). These are stepping stones for many people.

I have never tried to hide, nor broadcast where anything is sourced. Ask me and yee shall receive a straight answer. I will tell you this up front....all of my purchases are made from US based and Scotland/UK based, companies.

There is one company I purchase inventory from in Scotland that is, like this argument, a very polarizing source. Do they get their lower cost items outside of the UK....yes. Will I broadcast it here....no....it's not for me to make that decision for them.....When you come into the store, and ask...will I tell you....sure. I'm not trying to hide it. I will also say this......to my knowledge....they are not made in Pakistan.

(tangent on.......I have received samples from Pakistani companies...some have great workmanship, others not so much...all like the acrylic fabrics which I am not a fan of...all are difficult or next to impossible to deal with, for a small store, with very little cash reserves. None of which I have any intention of dealing with in the future....tangent off)

I do business with them because they allow me to offer a wide range of products and price points. I do business with them because they have been good to do business with. They have treated me fairly....and they offer a product line that allows someone....who is just getting started with their own business....that I can afford to carry.

I have also referred folks to other kilt companies, if they are looking for something I can't supply. I have told many customers to look at USA Kilts, Freedom Kilts, Neokilt and more. These groups make excellent kilts. I'd love to be able to carry inventory of their products at some point in the future but in talking with them can respect how they want their business to grow, to run, and selling through a retailer is not what they were looking for. If you'd like a custom measured, hand made kilt, made in the North America, of wool or of the finer poly-viscous materials....any of these groups will set you up right.

In closing, I have many sources, styles and products....kilts from Lochcarron, House of Edgar, Heritage of Scotland (Gold Brothers), Utilikilt, Sportkilt and Amerikilt......I have belts, buckles and other accessories from Glen Esk and GM Belt Supplies, pewter gifts from English Pewter in the UK, jewelry from Sterling Moon and Oberon Designs, pendants and treasure boxes from Andrew McGavin Designs....I even have tartan wool and products from the company that designed the tartans for the movies Braveheart and Rob Roy......and much more.

If, by having the cheaper kilts in my store, it means I have taken sides, in your view....then so be it...perhaps by not taking sides...we have ended up taking a side. But please know....we have so much more to offer, we are in this because of our heritage, because we want to work for ourselves, because we want to offer something to everyone....and hopefully have some fun and make a few $$$ in the process.

We are becoming more involved with the mid-Atlantic Scottish and Irish communities and hope to remain a positive, and welcomed, member of X Marks The Scot.

Let the flames begin.

Brad Hutchins

The Kilted Nation

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

PV vs a blend

To be clear, after getting in the store, tag states:

65% viscose rayon

35% acetate fiber

viscose rayon definition:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rayon

http://www.swicofil.com/viscose.html

http://www.fibersource.com/f-tutor/rayon.htm

Acetate definition:

http://www.apparelsearch.com/definit...definition.htm

These are certainly not acrylic kilts.

http://www.fabrics.net/manufact.asp

I will change the product descriptions to match but with poly implying a blend, and viscose also being known as rayon...check it out...there are many thread on X Marks that talks about this.....

now if the tags are wrong....and they could be....that's another story...but I'll stick with it for now.

Brad Hutchins

The Kilted Nation

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Brad,

Good on ya sir!

Kilt snobs give me a pain in the ass!!!

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That was great, One thing to all here. Jerry from Still water is a member over at X-Marks as well as

a listed merchant, A large majority of the members over at X-Marks rave about Stillwater Kilts and usually recommend them as a starter kilt. But lets not forget that for people like me who can not afford a hand made tank look to people like Jerry and Brad to help us on our path to kiltdom.

I applaud you Brad, Good Work...............

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That was great, One thing to all here. Jerry from Still water is a member over at X-Marks as well as

a listed merchant, A large majority of the members over at X-Marks rave about Stillwater Kilts and usually recommend them as a starter kilt. But lets not forget that for people like me who can not afford a hand made tank look to people like Jerry and Brad to help us on our path to kiltdom.

I applaud you Brad, Good Work...............

My sole complaint about StillWaters is that their better grade of kilts are not available for big men. I've ribbed Jerry about this for a looooooong time.

In fact, I've ribbed him so much about discriminating against big men that I felt obligated to buy one of his Thrifty Kilts when it became available in my size. Truth is, I'm really unimpressed with the Thrifty Kilt. But I'd love a chance to try one of the StillWaters Heavyweights. I guess I need to keep harassing Jerry.

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My sole complaint about StillWaters is that their better grade of kilts are not available for big men. I've ribbed Jerry about this for a looooooong time.

In fact, I've ribbed him so much about discriminating against big men that I felt obligated to buy one of his Thrifty Kilts when it became available in my size. Truth is, I'm really unimpressed with the Thrifty Kilt. But I'd love a chance to try one of the StillWaters Heavyweights. I guess I need to keep harassing Jerry.

Keep on him Doc, I love his standard and will be getting a heavyweight some day, I own both a Standard and an Economy and love them both but I see what your saying about the higher quality kilts not being made for you big guys. Maybe some day..

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I have no issue with synthetic kilts. I own a couple of SWK thrifties, & although I'm not personally all that comfortable in a 5yd, I bought them because the heavyweight doesn't come in Gordon. Why buy them at all then? Simple: I work with indelible pigment & blood. Occasionally, accidents happen, in spite of coverings, & there's no way I'm trashing an $800 kilt at work. Cash flow is not the only reason for a low-cost alternative, & the better-made synthetics fill a valuable place in the market.

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I have heard around the rumor mill is that PV is bad for your health because of the teflon dust or something like that. I would talk to Dread since he knows more about pv than anyone else.

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Yes, the teflon dust can cause teflon flu in some people, a reaction to fluoropolymer poisoning. Also a major migraine trigger.

Also, cheap PV occasionally contains formaldehyde, for similar reasons that cheap denim also contains formaldehyde. This can be problematic for people with breathing disorders, sensitive skin, etc. Having a rather dangerous carcinogen is a big turn off for me.

I've been told that teflon is being removed from the manufacturing process from at least one mill that I can recall. At least, I seem to recall somebody telling me that.

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IF I recall correctly, Marton Mills is dropping the teflon coating.

I HAVE NOT seen confirmation evidence.

MM's site: http://www.martonmills.com/range/dept/6

They make the P/V used by USA Kilts, Canadian Casual Kilts, and NeoKilt (probably others as well). It is the "high end" of tartan P/V (and the one mentioned in Kilted Nation's post).

The Jura line (16 oz wool) lists teflon coating as a feature.

It is in the midst of a MAJOR turnover, so the descriptions may be changed.

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